As I afor mentioned, when a Athiest can't win on open and honest discussion, here is what his responce This is a direct quote
God is IMAGINARY you dolt. And you yourself admitted that you have NO evidence to the contrary, and I've explained to your thick skulled self numerous times now that the burden of proof is on YOU to demonstrate otherwise, and that arguing that your God is real because we CAN'T disprove it is an invalid argument... the argument from ignorance (or negative proof), and is no more valid than me claiming that the Flying Spaghetti Monster is the REAL God of the universe and your God is his bitch. Of course you can't prove that isn't true... and you don't have to because fantastic claims WITHOUT EVIDENCE can be DISMISSED WITHOUT EVIDENCE.
And more importantly my provincial friend, WE DO HAVE A TON OF EVIDENCE THAT SHOWS THAT YOUR BIBLE IS BULLSHIT. THAT YOUR RELIGION IS A FALLACIOUS HOUSE OF CARDS AND THAT YOUR FAITH IS FUNDAMENTALLY INHERENTLY ILLOGICAL, IRRATIONAL, UNREASONABLE AND OUTRIGHT HOSTILE TO FACTS, EVIDENCE, AND THE VERY THING THAT SETS HUMANITY APART FROM THE REST OF THE ANIMALS... REASON.
You are an embarrassment to the human race.
(There's a limit to my patience when dealing with deluded fools. I have presented more than enough evidence in this discussion to prove how WRONG you and your son are. That you cannot wrap your bumpkin head around that is your loss. I have invested enough energy in this discussion and am more than comfortable with leaving the evidence as it stands for those less lost to reality.)
I bid you good day.
Life in general
7 comments:
Why don't you let them read for themselves Don and judge for themselves.
Your par for course debate with Christians on Facebook.
(Sorry to comment on both of your posts... I'd just like people to be able to judge for themselves rather than only hear your biased second hand rendition of the debate. Thanks.)
I might also mention that it's not very honest to cherry pick one of the very last comments in a discussion that went on almost non stop for many many hours over the course of three days.
The only comments I left after that were a short note to say I was ending the discussion and suspending my account for a bit, and a short quote. (As those who look at the actual discussion posted on my blog will see.)
As I wrote in my comment in response to your comment there:
I'm a human being Don, I can be driven to frustration just like anyone else. I never claimed to be perfect, and am in fact very far from it. I only claimed to be better informed and more capable of sound reasoning etc.
I don't like stooping to such base insults... but it's a character flaw I have to live with and one that generally never comes out unprovoked.
I think anyone that actually reads that entire debate will more than understand what finally brought me to that point after those many hours of such persistent irrationality on the part of you and your son.
Please don't try to cherry pick the worst you can find from that very long debate without giving people the opportunity to see for themselves what really happened.
Again, thanks.
As a matter of fact... you didn't even quote the entire comment that you chopped that bit off of the end of.
And since there are more insults in the rest of that single comment (one of the around 50 quite lengthy comments in the discussion), you should be happy to see me further cast myself in a bad light.
Don: You're sitting typing on a computer built by science. Your words are transmitted to me by that very real understanding of the natural world, electricity, transistors, etc... on an internet built by computer scientists using those same scientific principles...
Why don't you try praying as hard as you can and see if THAT sends your ignorant comments to me instead of these things built by science that you can't seem to wrap your head around how they got to be in front of you... maybe you believe that God just blinked them all into existence one day because someone prayed for it.
Or maybe you'll make the laughable (and as usual utterly unfounded) excuse that God INSPIRED these scientists to discover all these things... while ignoring the fact that you're still childishly trying as hard as you can to DISCREDIT science because the NUMEROUS FACTS show how incredibly clueless, irrational, deluded, and UTTERLY WRONG you are.
Am I getting close to the mark?
Don... you want to be a dishonest little man and LIE about things in order to try to insult me because lies and ad hominems and every other invalid and immature method of avoiding the truth is all you have left to cling to... you go right ahead. I've already stated IN THIS VERY DISCUSSION that you seem to have such a hard time wrapping your head around THAT I HAVE READ AT LEAST FOUR DIFFERENT TRANSLATIONS OF THE BIBLE (KJV, NIV, NRS, NLT) AND STUDIED SEVERAL OTHERS (the aforementioned codices, etc). I have also studied theology, textual criticism ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Textual_criticism ), biblical archaeology, anthropology, world religions including early religions specifically contemporary to, preceding and proceeding Christianity by thousands of years, as well as numerous fields of science since I was a small boy... archaeology, paleontology, entomology, cosmology, biology, chemistry, physics, geology, and on and on...
For you to simply deny all that and say that I can't even read the bible, as though I am illiterate or too stupid to understand what the authors meant, when I have PROVEN you WRONG about what the bible says, more than once in this discussion... a book that YOU YOURSELF admitted that you don't even really read or pay attention to because you've moved past it and are now just MAKING UP your own religion, that while obviously and necessarily built upon the Judeo-Christian faith as laid out in the bible, is somehow miraculous now TRUE INDEPENDENT of it's requisite foundation... for you deny all that and make the statements you do, that makes you a willful liar Don.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/lie
You have utterly failed to address the facts I presented at the beginning of this argument and so has your deluded moron of a son. All both of you small little people have done is sit and lie through your teeth, try to attack my character, motivation, intellect etc... and when that didn't work, you particularly took it upon yourself to try to act like you had a CLUE about science, or even the bible for that matter, and to try to use that feigned knowledge of science (which you clearly profoundly lack, as I illustrated) to try to discredit science because you are so desperate to preserve your delusion.
(continued next comment due to length)
(continued from previous comment)
You have committed every logical fallacy I've listed... outright ignored it when pointed out to you... you have flat out lied and denied things that I had already stated in this very discussion, claimed that I said things in this discussion that I clearly did not, and at essentially every step have tried to draw into question mankind's arguably most valuable discovery ever... the use of the scientific method to understand the REAL world around them.
God is IMAGINARY you dolt. And you yourself admitted that you have NO evidence to the contrary, and I've explained to your thick skulled self numerous times now that the burden of proof is on YOU to demonstrate otherwise, and that arguing that your God is real because we CAN'T disprove it is an invalid argument... the argument from ignorance (or negative proof), and is no more valid than me claiming that the Flying Spaghetti Monster is the REAL God of the universe and your God is his bitch. Of course you can't prove that isn't true... and you don't have to because fantastic claims WITHOUT EVIDENCE can be DISMISSED WITHOUT EVIDENCE.
And more importantly my provincial friend, WE DO HAVE A TON OF EVIDENCE THAT SHOWS THAT YOUR BIBLE IS BULLSHIT. THAT YOUR RELIGION IS A FALLACIOUS HOUSE OF CARDS AND THAT YOUR FAITH IS FUNDAMENTALLY INHERENTLY ILLOGICAL, IRRATIONAL, UNREASONABLE AND OUTRIGHT HOSTILE TO FACTS, EVIDENCE, AND THE VERY THING THAT SETS HUMANITY APART FROM THE REST OF THE ANIMALS... REASON.
You are an embarrassment to the human race.
(There's a limit to my patience when dealing with deluded fools. I have presented more than enough evidence in this discussion to prove how WRONG you and your son are. That you cannot wrap your bumpkin head around that is your loss. I have invested enough energy in this discussion and am more than comfortable with leaving the evidence as it stands for those less lost to reality.)
I bid you good day.
And again, that is only after around 50 other lengthy comments that I finally got to the point where I lost my temper and rather justifiably insulted you for your behavior as abundantly illustrated in the discussion.
You're welcome to trash talk me Don, but let's try to remain honest about it and let people just for themselves from the original discussion.
Again, thanks.
I agree with you and realize that we may never see eye to eye. I don't think anything less of you and realize where your anger against Christianity started. In our discussion you quoted Wikipedia and yourself primarily. Your enterpretation of biblical text are superficial and one dementional.( Only my humble and sometimes flawed opinion) Man has gotten too smart for himself. Through years of misinterpretation you and I can come to very different meanings of the same text. By faith I believe there is a God, and by science you try to prove that my faith is wrong.
I don't believe I insulted you, but if I did, I am sorry. Thanks for posting on my site, and please feel free to put in your opinion. As I told Jack,one of my greatest failing is my spelling .
A kind of informative note before I respond to your comment...
Our discussion ran for 46 pages, when printed out in full page document format. That's almost 23,000 words... and well over 125,000 characters... before I finally lost my temper at the VERY END.
Just to be clear.
Now in relation to what you've said, you're still not addressing the validity of the information I quoted. Wikipedia has been tested and found to be roughly as accurate, informative, and reliable as the Encyclopedia Britannica etc.
http://news.cnet.com/Study-Wikipedia-as-accurate-as-Britannica/2100-1038_3-5997332.html
It contains easy to understand articles that are well cited with references etc.
Whether or not I was presenting things I'd learned elsewhere or not, I provided numerous links to support my statements, and a number of bible verses as well.
The onus is therefor on you my friend to illustrate why, with your own credible facts and references why the information itself that I presented is wrong rather than simply trying to attack myself, or Wikipedia, or our credibility etc. (something I covered at length in our discussion as well, in the section about the invalidity of ad hominem abusive type arguments; part of which states; "This tactic is logically fallacious because insults and even true negative facts about the opponent's personal character have nothing to do with the logical merits of the opponent's arguments or assertions.")
And to clarify what a fallacy is; "In logic and rhetoric, a fallacy is a misconception resulting from incorrect reasoning in argumentation. By accident or design, fallacies may exploit emotional triggers in the listener or interlocutor (e.g. appeal to emotion), or take advantage of social relationships between people (e.g. argument from authority). Fallacious arguments are often structured using rhetorical patterns that obscure the logical argument, making fallacies more difficult to diagnose."
Which should explain why I went to such lengths to point out the fallacies as you committed them, with links for further reading for both you and the other readers to better understand why your arguments were invalid.
That said, my interpretation of scripture happens to be based on actual theological study, comparison between different translations, related cultural, religious, and historical context etc. Again, as I stated in our discussion, and in fact in the very comment that you copy/pasted the tail end of to try to make me look bad.
There's a reason I'd like people to see what I actually said, so that they can see how, just like in this very comment of yours, you ignore and deny what I've already explained in my comments because it doesn't suit your position to admit that I'm actually rather well read and studied in religion and Christianity specifically.
Now I do thank you for allowing me to post here, as I think that shows good character on your part.
I wouldn't worry about the spelling either, as you'll notice I never actually pointed it out (that was Jack). I have a good friend who has his Doctorate in Analytical Chemistry and his spelling is no better than yours. ;) Spelling isn't exactly an indicator of intelligence, although I have been known to stoop and point it out when it gets a little too ironic, such as when a person is flat out calling me an illiterate idiot and yet cannot even spell the insult right. ;)
Anyway, I think people can read the original discussion for themselves and hopefully at least make an informed decision having seen both sides of it.
Again, thanks.
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